Verse Eighty One

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From: jimclatfelter
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009

Verse Eighty One
Herrymon Maurer, 1985

True words are not nice;
Nice words are not true.
A good man does not argue;
An arguer is not good.
The wise are not learned;
The learned are not wise.
The sage does not hoard.
The more he does for others,
The more he has himself.
The more he gives,
The more he gets.
The way of Heaven is
To benefit but not to harm.
The way of the sage is
To work but not compete.

Verse Eighty One
Gia-Fu Feng & Jane English, 1972

Truthful words are not beautiful.
Beautiful words are not truthful.
Good men do not argue.
Those who argue are not good.
Those who know are not learned.
The learned do not know.
The sage never tries to store things up.
The more he does for others, the more he has.
The more he gives to others, the greater his abundance.
The Tao of heaven is pointed but does no harm.
The Tao of the sage is work without effort.

Verse Eighty Ome
Ron Hogan, ~2000

The truth isn't flashy.
Flashy words aren't true.

Educated people
aren't always smart.
Smart people
don't always have an education.

Good people don't argue.
People who argue aren't good.

The Masters don't hang on to things.
They're always doing something
for other people,
so they always have more to give.
They give away
whatever they have,
so what they have is worth more.

If you want to get right with Tao,
help other people, don't hurt them.
The Masters always work with people,
never against them.

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From: simon
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009

Hi All,
The
Quote:
The more he gives,
The more he gets.
&
They give away
whatever they have,
so what they have is worth more.
idea brings the tube experiment to mind... being space for - rather than confronting - is more than enriching!
Not standing in the light means no shadow!
Love to all,
Simon

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From: Steve Palmer
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009

Quote: being space for - rather than confronting

Thats sounds like a good lesson to me.

A warm space to all,

Steve

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From: jimclatfelter
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009

The truth isn't flashy.
Flashy words aren't true.

Ron Hogan uses common, sometimes vulgar, language in his translation. I like the term not flashy . It's just the right term for both The Dao and the Headless Way.

A good man does not argue;
An arguer is not good.

I had a pretty extended "debate" on LookForYourself when I first joined. I mentioned it to Douglas at a workshop. He said it's always best not to argue. It's a lesson I still need to remember sometimes. It's good to have this reminder in this last verse of the Tao Te Ching.

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It's time now to let the discussion go where it will, if it will.

I hope people will feel free to make comments on any of the verses that interest them. We don't need to keep them in numerical order.

Please add any new topic you care to discuss. Maybe you have some statements about how the Tao and Headless Seeing are related. What are the common themes in both? I'm going to be thinking about that. I'll post whatever I come up with. I hope others do too. I'm going to keep checking in. We've finished the 81 verses, but that doesn't have to be the end of the matter. I hope it isn't.

Thanks to everybody for participating. It's been a valuable discussion for me. I hope it has for you too.

Jim

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From: Steve Palmer
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009

Thank you for all your efforts Jim,
making the Seeing and Tao Forum available and guiding it.

And thank you Simon and all who participated in the discussions too.

Steve

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From: simon
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009

Funny that its "the end, already"...
Just last night it occurred to me that it might be fun to go back to the beginning and start again, as this is an organic work: the whole is greater than the parts (well, that's a bit obvious, isn't it? Not perhaps the clearest way to explain how it feels!)
There is a quality of quiet, un-judgemental watchfulness or observation that shines through this tradition (at least for me), very few lessons being given, more celebration than preaching - which is rare and has value in these "know-all" times.
I too, want to thank everyone for their contributions which have brought to light ways of seeing that I might never have considered: which is what communication is all about, no?
While we started with "the name that can be named is not the eternal name..." and finish with the limitations of words and verbal understanding, what fun to take a run at the infinite with words!
Thanks for a wondrous journey from here to here, but with a feeling of "fresh, first time view"
love to all,
Simon

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From: Steve Palmer
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009

" Where can I find a
man who has
forgotten words ?

I would like to have
a word with him "

Chuang Tzu

From
" Tales from the Tao "
a beautifully produced
book by
by Solala Towler

Does Chuang Tzu look for the seer,
up stream of concepts and words,
where intuition sees the way to go in a blink,
before the words arrive ?
The poetry before the logic.

regards,

Steve

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